What is the difference between jr. and ii

Anyone is free to name a child however they wish. These are just some of the common and traditional uses of Jr and II. When it comes to the II suffix, it is traditionally used when naming a child usually a boy after a male family member other than the father. If II is to be used, the name must be exactly the same as the name of the person being honored, including spelling and middle name, or the II suffix would be pointless. You are honoring a relative by naming a child after them, so the name must match perfectly, by logic, if you are going to call them II i.

These are old-fashioned rules for naming children, which originated in previous times out of necessity to distinguish people from one another when there was not as much of a variety of different names used as there is today. While it would be perfectly acceptable today to call a boy named after his father II instead of Jr, this was not so in the generations of our ancestors. If you want to follow custom and family tradition, then you should do the same thing.

Girls can also be given the suffixes Jr and II, but it is not as common as with boys. It was sometimes done in the generations of our ancestors, but it never became as widely used as it was with boys, since girls took the last names of their husbands when they got married. If a Jr or II was used with a girl, if was often informally, to distinguish her from her mother or whatever other female relatives she had been named after, and only used until she got married when her full name would become different from that of her namesake.

You might find this done with a few girls today, but it is definitely even less common than it was in previous generations. When the same name middle, spelling, and all is handed down for a third time and subsequent times after that, it does not matter if the original Sr was a father or another like-named male relative.

The point, at that point, is that the name is being handed down from generation to generation. Select basic ads. Create a personalised ads profile. Select personalised ads. Apply market research to generate audience insights. Measure content performance. Develop and improve products.

List of Partners vendors. Share Flipboard Email. Kimberly Powell. Genealogy Expert. Updated February 15, Cite this Article Format. Powell, Kimberly. The Difference Between the Suffixes "Jr. English Surnames Meanings and Origins.

Jesseka, If your grandfather was named at birth with a Sr, then you are correct. That is his name. However, if he was not born with it, then I am afraid from a tradition point of view, he is not an Sr. This article and the series of questions and answers are about the traditional use.

When a man is born he is given a name and there is no guarantee that he will grow up to father children, let alone father boys or even if he did, that he and the mother would choose to use the same name. Any subsequent sons, grandsons, etc…who have the same name have to distinguish themselves from the man who preceded them and so they have a suffix.

Sometimes the is easier to explain using kings and queens. Queen Victoria was just Queen Victoria, without a suffix because she was the first queen named Victoria. She was the first and so no explanatory suffix was needed.

The suffix is necessary to distinguish her from her ancestor. A man who is the first in his family with a name does not need a suffix. Everyone afterwards does. However, as the original or previous holders of the name die, the closest to the original can drop their suffix in casual conversation or situations. In other words, if your grandfather were to die, your father, Jr , could drop the Jr when introducing himself, or something like that, because the presumption is that everyone would know your grandfather had died so the Jr would not be necessary.

Your brother though, he still needs to use the III, though because we need to distinguish him from your father and he already has the III on his name. Just as a quick aside, nicknames serve much the same function as suffixes.

Out in public, they would be addressed as Mrs. If a man died before his wife, she would still use his name. Now you have two women, the wife of the original and the wife of Jr, both using the same Mrs name.

How do you tell which was which??? The wife of the original takes on Sr, both to distinguish her from her daughter in law and as a mark of respect for being the elder matriarch. Again, as Ive said before, all of this presumes fathers and sons grandsons, etc live or work in the same area with the same people.

I am a Jr and my father and I live miles apart. There is no need since very few people know us both. As for this becoming a bit much, well, that really depends on how closely you want to follow tradition. Three asides: 1. If someone else in the immediate family had chosen to use the name first, typically a nephew, they would have been III or 3rd and your new son would be a IV or 4th. The II suffix is used for the second person in the family with the name but who is NOT the son of the person who originally had the name, typically a nephew.

Which brings me to…… 3. Was this grandfather born with the SR or has he just started using it to distinguish himself from his son with the identical name, the JR? He is the original and not having a suffix is as much a distinguishing factor as having one. SR is reserved for widows and is unnecessary for men, despite being misused daily by obituary writers. Congratulations on your new son. Sharing a family name is an honor. Hi, My brother wants to name his second child which is a girl to our grandma.

She died years before my little niece was born. Is it ok to name my niece Annie Marie II?? Nelson, The short answer is yes, if his new daughter and your grandmother have the same name including surname. If your grandmother is your grandmother via your mother, she would have had a different surname after marrying than the newborn will have. Their names were a reflection of who their father was or who they married.

This is extremely rare. It would be very untraditional for your brother to give his daughter a suffix and there may be computer forms, maybe even government paperwork, that she may need to fill out that has no place for her to put her suffix, simply because nobody expects a woman to have a suffix. That said, I personally think it is wonderful that your brother wants to honor your grandmother this way. He or she may have paperwork issues in the future but if he is willing to accept that, then there is no reason not to use II.

Brian Jr, Your legal name is whatever is on your birth certificate. If you are a Jr, then you are a Jr, not a 2nd. Jr and 2nd or II are not the same thing. Jr is the suffix given to the son of the original.

II or 2nd is given to the second person to have the name that is NOT the son of the original. For example: Two brothers Brian and Robert. If Brian has a son, he calls the child Brian Jr.

If that happens and Brian then has a son, he can still name his son Brian Jr. Now, imagine that happens. Andrew, I have to hand it to you, you are a very patient man. I have enjoyed this thread and have learned a few things at the same time. Now for my question. When a woman marries and she takes her husbands name, does her birth certificate also change making her new name her legal name?

Thank you, Mike. Mike, Thank you. You are kind to say so. The marriage certificate is considered enough documentation to get a name changed on a license and passport. Obviously, there are other documents required for the initial request for a license and passport, but for just the name change part, that is all that is needed. The II suffix is rare. It is used only for the child who is the second to have a name, but not a direct descendant of the original. Typically, a nephew. If your great-grandfather The original had a brother who had a son before your grandfather was born, that child might have been II.

Then, when your grandfather was born, he would still be Jr, because it indicates the immediate descendant son of the original. Now comes the fun part. Then, as those two men became fathers, the first born son would be IV, and so on. That back and forth use of the name can happen later too. Lets say you have a brother.. If Doug has a son before you do, that child will be Rick V.

Your son, born later, will be Rick VI. Pretty Girl, Thank you. You are very kind and even kinder to take the time to say that. Well, regardless of the rules, I named my son the II and it is recorded on his birth certificate. There is no name police. For some reason, the system wont allow me to respond directly to your question in the proper place within the thread.

My husband and his dad have the same name, in fact my husband is William III. Since they had lived at the same address for a time- their credit reports got merged. Even grandpa William I if you will who was alive when he was in college whose mail and bills went to that address.

Ever since then on all legal documents or any time he signs his name at all he uses his full name including middle initial and the the III suffix to distinguish himself from his father.

Kristine, This is exactly why suffixes matter even today. Your husband is smart to use both. We would have to meet just to exchange mail. Come to think of it, we now live miles apart and people still confuse us. Best wishes to all. Joseph P Kennedy is the patriarch. His son was Joseph P Kennedy Jr. However, this grandson is not the son of Jr, he is the son of Robert Kennedy.

Have the suffixes been messed up or were they assigned correctly? David, If there is already a Jr, then the next person with the identical name would be III, regardless of whether the child was a child of Jr or a brother. Hi Andrew, I know this is an old post of yours and you have lots of replies from people, and to be honest some I just didnt read, so pardon me.

But I just want to know if this is right:. Is it right? And will it have legal issues later? Thank you very very much for your patience with replying posts in here. We appreciate it. This thread has grown enormously. You can name your son anything you want, even a name identical to another. Following tradition, you would be correct to name your son using III. Suffixes were created to reduce the confusion between people that are alive, not dead. You could just as easily leave off any suffix.

Also, I apologize for not answering sooner. I just received notification of your question late last night. If you want to stay as close as possible to the traditional, I think you should use Jr for your son and then III for your grandson and so on.

That also makes the most sense for the suffixes as well since Jr is only for father and son and II is typically reserved for a nephew and uncle. They did nothing wrong.

Had they followed tradition your husband would have been a Jr and your son a III 3rd. If you want to start using a suffix, I think you might as well start as if your husband was the original and give your son the Jr suffix.

The names have to be identical for the suffixes to make sense. Hello Sir, My wife and I are expecting our first child soon and would like to honor my father by naming our son after him.

Thank You in advanced. Dom, You are correct. Your son will be the second in the family to have the name, but not as the son of the original, so he would be II. My sons name is J. Justin Jr. Justin, No. Once you have a III, then the numbers go up in numerical order, regardless of who the father is. If your brother has a son before J. Again, not unusual.

The suffixes merely show birth order without regard to who the father is. Jr and II are the exception and are very specific. Jr is for the son of the original…like J. II is used only when a child is born to another close family member and before the original had an opportunity to have a Jr. In other words, if your brother had a son before you had J. Then when you became a father, your son would still be Jr. For Example. Vincenzo in Italian is Vincent in English.

Am I still a junior or second or third, etc, since they are the same name written in different languages. Vincent, Great question. While the names are the same name from different languages, they are both spelled and pronounced differently.

Because of that, there would be no need to distinguish one from the other. They are, for practical purposes, different names. Although suffixes were created to differentiate between people, at the same time they show a link between fathers, sons and grandchildren. Today, that is more important. You could use a suffix for Vincent, child of Vincenzo, as a way of showing the connection.

There is no reason not to and if I were you, I most certainly would. Remember though, for it to make sense, the names, other than translation would have to be identical, including middle names.

Hi Andrew! Thank you! Mel, Yes, you can use only an initial instead of a full middle name. However, I can see one problem. Getting official documents like a passport and a federally compliant license may be difficult.

I encourage you to name your son they way you want, just be prepared for problems. Yes, since the names are not identical, no suffix is needed and in fact, using a suffix would be confusing. Melchor B. Castro is not the same as Melchor P.

No suffix necessary. However, if their names were identical, Jr would be traditionally correct, not II. Jr represents a direct link between the first and the next, meaning father and son, where as II is used when there is no direct line, like between uncle and nephew or grandfather and grandson. Congratulations on your new baby!

Also, is there ever an instance where Jr. Just the same as when the names are completely different. Your legal name is your legal name. However, When the father dies, the Jr can drop using the Jr in casual usage because presumably every one knows that the father is dead. There will be no confusion over which man was being spoken about. Here is an extreme example but it demonstrates the point: After JFK was killed, his son never had to use the Jr in conversation.

JFKJr used his suffix on passports, licenses, etc, because it was his legal name but he could drop it anywhere else. This continues through the following suffixes as well. While Jr is alive, III should continue to use III, not just because it is the legal name, but because it will distinguish him from Jr, even if Jr has dropped using the Jr in casual situations.

This keeps going in that pattern. The most senior living may drop the suffix in casual usage and everyone else uses their suffix they were given at birth. There is no traditional reason for a Jr to become II.

However, just as a person can have their legal name changed of any number of reasons, if a Jr wants to be a II, there are no rules to stop them. I can see why if someone found out that their uncle was their biological father, they might consider such a change. My best to you and your family.

Long thread! Thanks for the clarification Andrew. Dad shares the same first name as his dad but completely different middle names and initials and followed tradition in staying away from Jr.

Hubby is considering legally adding II to his name if we do have a boy to distinguish both persons. One commentator gave an example that shows me the necessity of this. We met a girl during our dating years who had a name we liked so we agreed on that easily.

Our next daughter is named after the name we were going to give our second daughter because we forgot the name of the child we met. I had a name picked out for our boy and hubby agreed for a few years. He changed his mind and I agreed with the change. Thanks again for keeping up with this thread all these years.

It spoke to the me now, as I am now even though it was meant for an audience of the past. Dear Jay Mi, Thank you for the kind thoughts. Tradition states though that unless the names are identical, there is no need for a suffix.